Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

81

Are there ANY Bible prophecies that indisputably came true?

by nicolaou in

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i mean a prophecy made before the event, with specific detail that can be verified in history books.

nothing vague like 'reports of wars'.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

There are some issues with the OT prophecies about the Messiah. There are no contemporary recorded accounts of Jesus' birth, life, and death. The closest we have are the Gospels, and the oldest copies date to the second century--100+ years after he allegedly died. This is plenty of time for the authors to write about his birth, life, and death in such a way that made him appear to fulfill the OT prophecies.

The fact that there are contradictions among the various Gospels adds to the likelihood that they were embellished stories.

Following Ockham's razor, it is much more likely that something like this happened.

36

What do most ex-JWs "believe" after leaving?

by EverAStudent in

has anyone done a survey to determine what faith system, religion, or set of religious beliefs ex-jws tend to settle into after leaving the organization?

if not, would you care to post what you presently consider to be your own personal religion (e.g.

protestant, catholic, baptist, jw but not in the organization, agnostic, atheist, ...) and especially what you presently believe about jesus (was he a real historical human, is he god, is he an angel, ...).. thank you!.

Olin Moyles Ghost

By "ex-JWs" I assume you mean people who no longer believe the JW doctrine (there are lots of disfellowshiped "ex-JWs" who still believe). With that caveat, I'd venture that most ex-JWs fall into 3 categories mentioned below. It would not surprise me if a slight majority, or at least a plurality fall into #1. The next-largest group is probably #2, followed by #3. (Of course, this is all wild conjecture based on people I know in real life and on these boards.)

Non-religious. They may be atheist, agnostic, deist, whatever, but they're not convinced that there's a God who wants to be worshiped.
The Ray Franz model. These folks are still Christians, still believe the Bible, and still retain many WTS beliefs (no hell, no Trinity, no immortal soul). But they reject the idea of "God's organization" and focus on a simple type of Christianity.
Evangelical. Some portion of former Witnesses join up with another religious group--often evangelical protestants--and embrace traditional doctrines of Christendom such as the Trinity, etc.

151

There's A Ghost At My Place Of Employment

by finallysomepride in

ok some of you will laugh at this, but it's true, there is a spirit that haunts the premises where i work.. it has spoken to me once when i was locking up, it was 1 single word "hello", i looked around and saw nothing, i ignored it, set the alarm locked the door & went home.

other times i have felt something brush passed me as i have entered the building early in the morning.

the experience that got to me most happened the other nite when i was called back to the store by security, as i pulled into the drive way there was a man standing at the rear of the building, in the split second of looking away he dissapeared, there's no way that he could have run off the property in that split second.. what do you think?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

If someone really had verifiable evidence of paranormal activity--why wouldn't they just take the Randi Foundation up on its offer and collect the million dollars? See http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

To me, it's pretty telling that the million bucks are still there.

120

Name Some Stupid Watchtower Rules or Ideas

by minimus in

jw
friends

there's a lot.. one rule that is dumb is that a brother must wear a suit for a sunday public talk that he is giving.

any other time, the brother could wear a suit coat with a different pair of pants and not be counseled for it.. another dumb idea is that you cannot date a person unless you seriously might marry them.

if you're on a date, you were supposed to always have a chaperone and holding hands might not be allowed as well as sitting together.. what other dumb rules and ideas can you add?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

No beards for men.

No slacks for women at meetings/service.

No organized sports for children/teenagers.

No university education. (though this one has ebbed/flowed over the past 15 years or so)

110

wife took it pretty well i guess...it's over...

by oompa in

jw
friends

i guess it only took three years, but they were hell in so many ways for both of us...she was not happy and lived in denial as much as possible...i was not happy and lived in a bottle as much as possible and glad that is over for me....but it was one of the saddest things i have ever experienced in my life....as was the visit to my parents before i told her....but yes...she said she kind of expected it...was thinking something was going to happen soon as she noticed i had more and more trouble saying i love you back to her when she said it on the phone at the end of goodbyes...and when i was leaving the house...i had noticed it for over a year and it was killing me..... i told her how sorry i was for changing so much again....and that she still walks on water...and is a great person and so pretty....and that she will be ok because she was happy single before me for many years and had all she needs for that again...her closeness to jehovah and her freinds in the congregation...she is very close to both and will be ok i hope...it was very surreal....very calm...very sad.

my bitterness and disdain for wt rules came through when talking to my parents and i was very open about how i feel as to their upcoming shunning of me, and how it feels to my son since he was just 17....and how the fear of losing them had kept me trying in my marriage for the past few years...dad was firm in his position of future action....mom said they will still always love me...and will still talk to me until i get dfd.....oh how this hurts.....dad said there is a name for people who only live for themselves and deny god but could not think of what it was....i told him i was not living just for myself...that i am a good person and there are values from him and the bible i hope i always have....i cry so hard as i type this and tell you just so you can know how painful this is....i told him i so loved the rule of treating others how you want to be treated and have always done that...even allowing myself to be wronged on so many occasions to keep peace....... he said that was a good rule....i agreed and said it was a big one too....and that while i could do it...treat him the way i would like to be treated...he would not be able to!.......left as i became emotional...big hug from mom, but i just barely put an arm on dad............oompa.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Sorry to hear that, Oompa--especially the part about your parents. To face that kind of rejection from the two people who should love you the most must be devastating.

And here's the kicker: it hurts them every bit as much as it hurts you. This is truly a no-win situation for everybody. You're losing your parents--and you don't want to lose them. They're losing their son--and they don't want to lose you. But they feel they MUST lose you because of their misguided loyalty to a book publishing company who they believe speaks for their imaginary god.

I once read a statement that applies to your situation. It went something like this: 'Generally, good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But if you want to see good people do bad things--that takes religion.'

7

Email & Texting.....The JW way of personal communication

by Girlie in

i came across an email this morning from an old jw acquaintance, stating that she hasn't heard from me in a while (about 4 or 5 months) and was wondering how i am doing.

she goes into this spiel about how she is mentally exhausted from family, ministry, etc.

she then ask me to contact her at home after 3 p.m., leaving her phone number.

Olin Moyles Ghost

I don't think it's a JW thing. And you may be reading too much into it. I would even dare to suggest that she's being considerate.

Since she hasn't seen you in months, she may not know your schedule--i.e., when is a good time for you to chat. So, she told you that after 3:00 is good for her. This gives you the choice to call her at a time (after 3:00) that's convenient for you. And you have the choice to simply not call her if you don't want to.

48

College

by AllTimeJeff in

jw
friends

i know i have threatened to do this before, like when i first left.

but i am thinking of going to college.

this time, i feel determined.

Olin Moyles Ghost

Hey Jeff, allow me to put in my two cents. If you can hack the math, go for engineering. While there are no guarantees when it comes to finding a job, engineers typically (1) make more money starting out and (2) have lower unemployment than liberal arts and business majors.

And the fact that you have strong communications skills will make you a rare commodity among engineers. People who are technically strong and can also communicate well can do very well for themselves.

Feel free to pm me if you have questions.

36

Superstitions of JW's

by highdose in

can we name them all i wonder?.

Olin Moyles Ghost

This site http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=superstition provides the following definition for "superstition": an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear

That describes the whole WTS/JW theology, doesn't it? They have irrational beliefs, such as:

Jesus invisibly returned in 1914
Jesus selected the WT Society as his faithful slave in 1919
Despite documented failed predictions of The End in 1914, 1918, 1925, and 'a generation after 1914,' the WTS is not a false prophet
Most of Revelation was fulfilled in the early 20th century by Rutherford and his associates
Only active JWs have any scriptural hope of surviving The End, which is coming "imminently," even though there are BILLIONS of people who have never heard of the JW faith

And these beliefs are necessarily based on ignorance--because there's no proof for them. For example, the Society cannot prove that Jesus "returned invisibly" in 1914--it was invisible! Kinda like the Emperor's New Clothes...

Finally, fear comes into play. Fear of death, fear of being ostracized from friends and family.

9

Reflections on Circuit Assembly - Satan's gonna get you!

by sir82 in

jw
friends

had our ca recently.. others have posted on the program contents in other posts here, so i won't do that here.. but i was struck by something over the 2 days of mindless repetition and out-of-context scriptural quotations: the number of times "satan" was referenced.

he was easily the 2nd-most referenced bible character, after jehovah of course, but far outpacing jesus, paul, david, etc.. "don't view porn, because you'll make satan happy..." "satan wants you to fail..." "satan is doing everything in his power to destroy your family..." "satan has succeeded in causing some brothers to give up..." "satan.....satan....satan....satan!!!".

virtually every talk included something about how satan is just waiting to do something perfectly revolting, to us personally.. i imagine this topic is covered at virtually every assembly, but this time for some odd reason, it really struck me.. what do you suppose the effect of all these "satan is going to get you!

Olin Moyles Ghost

Thanks for the synopsis, sir82. It is amazing to me that grown men and women talk about Satan, demons, etc. like they really exist and are out to get them.

I guess if you repeat something over and over for decades, you'll tend to believe it...no matter how fanciful it is.

As I reflect on my life as a JW, I'm not sure I ever really believed in Satan and demons. Whenever a JW had a "demon story" I typically dismissed it as some combination of paranoid delusions and natural phenomena. I also recall noticing that the folks with demon stories weren't "strong JWs"--they were typically the crazy ones. You know who I'm talking about--the ones with whom you didn't want to get stuck in a car group out in service.

26

Give a brief description of what is the Watchtower Society and the JWS organization

by The Almighty Homer in

if you were to give a brief description of what you know already of this organization, how would you define it yourself ?.

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my definition would be a an exploitive and manipulating free wheeling religious publishing company.. i might add none of this would have been at all possible without the freedom of religion policy of the united states.. it very well started out that way and continues to this very day.. intellectually dishonest but very commercial in its intension.. .

Olin Moyles Ghost

Jehovah's Witnesses: the Sales and Marketing arm of the Watchtower Corporation.